Flares fitted to Ivatt Self Trimming Tender.

Further to my last post below are some photos of the flares as fitted to the J6 self trimming tender. There is still much cleaning up and some filling of the corners with solder to do but so far I am very pleased with how they are going.

Starting with some shots after soldering on the flares but before starting to filling the corners with solder.

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Fitting the flares

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Fitting the flares

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Fitting the flares

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Fitting the flares

Then with the mostly filled in corners.

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Fitting the flares

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Fitting the flares

 

Flares, not those of the trouser persuasion though.

The next job to tackle before starting to assemble everything was the flares and it proved a bit easier than anticipated. Having formed the curves I offered it up the tender and at first I was a little baffled (permanent state of mind at the minute) but quickly realised that I needed to trim the curved end of each side and then it would fit.
I only got part of it soldered on before bed time last night so tonight I will finish that and then take photos.

Modeller’s Block Overcome

Although I haven’t posted anything this week things have been progressing albeit slowly.

The reason for the slow approach has been a combination of a lot of other things intruding and the fact that I couldn’t get my head around how the front coal plate shown in the last post attached to the tender front itself. While I pondered I moved along by fitting hand rail knobs to the tender sides and fitting lifting rings to the coal space sides and tank top/coal chute. I still haven’t assembled the innards because I want all the sub assemblies ready and to have an understand of how things fit before committing myself.

Before getting started on anything last night I re-read the instructions and saw the wood for the trees and ended up with this. Still a bit more to do but I am happy with progress.

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Coal Plate, lifting eyes etc.

There is mention in the instructions of a strip 49mm (I think but I don’t have the instructions to hand so I will edit the post later and confirm) x 4.5mm
but I couldn’t find the part so I used a suitable piece of scrap etch to make the infill piece for the back which forms a shelf behind the coal plate.

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Coal Plate, lifting eyes etc.

 

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Coal Plate, lifting eyes etc.

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Coal Plate, lifting eyes etc.

Lastly although not needed for my build but needed for the revision of the instructions I made up the two dome options which are included a rectangular combined dome/filler and the separate dome.

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Coal Plate, lifting eyes etc.

On the round dome everything was a perfect fit whereas on the combined dome I had to take a sliver of the two half etched overlaps to get them to meet squarely a simple exercise that took moments to do with a pair of topiary scissors

Gladiator Ivatt Self Trimming Tender – Coal Plate, lifting eyes etc.

Gladiator GNR Ivatt Tender – Sussed it at last.

Well, after all the discussion and mental hand wringing by yours truly I do believe that I have cracked it.

I soldered some scrap etch into each side of the front step of the tender and sods law dictates now that I have I will find suitable parts included (I confess that I didn’t even check).

Gladiator Ivatt Tender -Coal Chute

Gladiator Ivatt Tender -Coal Chute

Gladiator Ivatt Tender -Coal Chute

It’s all dry fitted at this point and before soldering I do need to check that the tank vents will fit – I may have to straighten the curve a bit to create a flat ledge for the vents to sit on but if I do I will report back.

Gladiator Ivatt Tender -Coal Chute

Gladiator Ivatt Tender -Coal Chute

A very informative circle

Having essentially gone around in a circle I have received a lot of information and help from a couple of gents via RMweb and the LNER Forum – Dave Lester and Paul Craig.
With Paul’s help I had determined that my tender was indeed a self trimming variety and Dave confirmed it by posting exactly the type of tender that was attached to my loco 64206 from 1935 -1960 (tender 614) and with further help from Paul I believe that I have worked out how it fits together too.
This has proven a very interesting side trip into the world of tenders from which I have learned a lot. I must also offer an apology to the late Malcolm Crawley for remotely suggesting that he might have had it wrong….
More progress to come as it happens

A Few Tender Questions, and Maybe an Answer or Two

The plot thickens. It seems that there are two externally visibly the same tenders which may well be the 3000 gallon version and the 3500 gallon versions.
By extreme good fortune this year I have taken photos of both. I had forgotten the other until today though.
The first one is located at Shildon, attached to the C1 large-boilered Atlantic and, as proposed in a recent post, I asked one of the museum assistants if I could be accompanied aboard to take photos of the tender top on Saturday and he obliged.
The other is attached by coincidence to the small-boilered Atlantic Henry Oakley whom I encountered at York earlier in the year. Although not great and I didn’t get aboard, I did get enough details from my photos to work out which version I need for the J6 and more importantly that the coal space on the kit isn’t quite like the two preserved examples each of which are similar but different.
Firstly what the kit looks like:
Next the tender attached to the Large Atlantic
I have more detailed photos of the tender top on my Flickr site but these will suffice to tell the story to date.
Lastly the tender attached to Henry Oakley and the one which I believe that I need for the J6 when compared to the couple of photos I have of the prototype – no 64206 and more importantly the type that I believe the kit is meant to represent (unless there was a third type which looked externally the same.
[
As I said, not the best photos but they do show that one side is higher than the other and there is a representation of lockers albeit the prototype show a small door on the higher side whereas the etch has a full height door. The key difference though is in the coal space. Both types of tender have a parallel rather plain functional coal space and I would be surprised if there was a third type that had one with the sloping sides that are inferred by the etches. I think that Malcolm Crawley got it wrong when he designed the tender kit but I would be happy to be corrected in that assumption.
Unless some evidence comes to the fore fairly soon to tell me that I am wrong I intend to modify the coal space to be more like that of the tender attached to Henry Oakely.

A tender spot in the instructions – Gladiator J6 with Self Trimming Tender

Well I have to admit I have reached a bit of the kit instructions that have really stumped me…

“Take coal space sides, note the handling and drill 1.85mm at half etched pops if fitting scoop and tank vents, then fold so that the sides fit into the coal space front plate, tack into position taking care to be square to front plate. Sit the assembly into it’s slot in the sole plate and tack onto position square ‘each way'”

I found the parts easily enough and put them together how I interpreted the instructions but then found that there was nowhere/way that they would fit.

Gladiator J6 Coal Chute

Gladiator J6 Coal Chute

Gladiator J6 Coal Chute

Gladiator J6 Coal Chute

There is a plan and top down outline drawing supplied but I can’t figure out from which bit is the coal space front plate or which orientation it fits in.

My only saving grace is that there is one of these tenders attached to the C1 Atlantic at Locomotion so I plan to see if I can get aboard it when I am there next weekend to see how the coal chute/plate is made up on the real thing.

I am on my way to Telford tomorrow so I will have better things to think about until mid next week.

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender

Further work on the tender last night got one of the more difficult bits behind me – bending the one-piece tank sides/end.

However, I will start off with a bit of a gotcha! The instructions tell you if modelling post 1940 to drill out two etched dimples on the rear right hand side of the tender for hand rails that must have been fitted to some tenders at some point.

Having done it I immediately started to think I wonder. Sure, enough when I looked at photos of 64206 which is the loco being modelled I noted no rear handrail….

So, I opened out the holes to 1.55mm and soldered some stubs of rod in – this is it from the inside

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender – fixing a mistake

And from the outside – thankfully nothing shows

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender – fixing a mistake

Next the tender sides are rectangular but on the real thing on the tender that I am working on there are cut outs for a handrail as in this example by Ron Bowyer.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/okJtkh][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5561/14663148970_50f779a2c3_k.jpg[/img][/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/okJtkh]GNR/LNER Gresley "J6" class 0-6-0 No. 64223.[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/93456400@N04/]Ron Bowyer[/url], on Flickr

I have to confess to struggling with the instructions on this point so I went my own way. There are sections of etched beading to represent this and having worked out for myself how I believe they are meant to fit I tacked them to each end

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender – cutting out for the hand rail

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender – cutting out for the hand rail

This allowed me to scribe a line to cut/file to and then I unsoldered them and removed the bits that needed removing. Time will tell as to whether what I have done is correct but studying various photos it looks right.

The next job was to drill out one of two dimples for the front handrail knob – these are design for a short rail where the top is cut out as I have done or a long rail where the side is left at full height. I drilled out the lower ones.

Then I carefully marked out where the first bend should be and then bent it using my Metalsmith Drilling table with a rod slightly smaller than the required bend clamped to it.

Modified by CombineZP

Modified by CombineZP

 

If this sort of thing scares you take heart. I didn’t get it right first time, I just calmly straightened it with fingers and thumbs finally using smooth bladed pliers to finish off and them remeasured and tried again. The first side (the one in the photos) I got right on the second attempt. The other side took three goes…. but I got there.

Next up is to solder in the bulkhead.

Where the instructions are really lacking is that they refer to parts but don’t number them so you are constantly searching the scans of the etches and the index to find out which part you are looking for – the scans are labelled with part numbers and there is an index but it would be so much better if the instructions had part numbers alongside the text.

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender

Then lastly solder the side/end piece to the footplate.

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender

A tender moment or two with the Gladiator J6

After my interlude with the Streamlined Coronations I am now back on the J6.
Over the last couple of evenings I have prepared the Finney Hornguides/blocks ([s]nicked[/s]) borrowed from my A1 kit until I collect some more from the guys at Telford.
Then I started on the instructions which have you prepare the outer chassis first and then attach it to the tender footplate.
Here’s where I got to on that last night.

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender Chassis

Gladiator GNR Self Trimming Tender Chassis

Gladiator J6 Modified Loco springs fitted to the frames

Although there hasn’t been much to share, work has been progressing on the J6.
We now have all the springs attached to the frame. Initially I though to have the centre springs removable and the for and aft ones just soldered on but in the end I drilled and tapped them all 12ba so they are all removable should the need arise.

Gladiator J6 Loco Springs Fitted

Gladiator J6 Loco Springs Fitted

Gladiator J6 Loco Springs Fitted

Gladiator J6 Loco Springs Fitted

Gladiator J6 Horn Guides Fitted

Recently I seem to have been spending far too much time browsing and not enough time modelling but I have made some positive progress which I can share.
I have fitted the motions plate with some angle brackets to allow it to be screwed to the frames.

Modified by CombineZP

Not the best photo in the world but hopefully it’s good enough.
Then last night saw the horn guides installed using my Hobby Holidays jig. I also made use of the Use of the springs allowed me to position the horn guides much better without them moving.

Modified by CombineZP

Modified by CombineZP

Because I am using Finney LNER horn guides I now need to file out the bits that protrude into the holes in the frames etc. marked in red on the photo so that’s this evening main task.

Stephenson’s Motion 4 Bar Slide Bars – plus a bit of extra detail

Alongside creation of the motion plate, I had to prepare the slide bars and make the cross heads fit.
Once I had them running nice and smooth and having test fitted them in the motion plate,  I detailed them with the very prominent oil pots on the tops. Made from spare etch and nickel rod
I am not sure why but these proved and absolute pain to take photos of…

Gladiator J6 – LG Slide Bars with scratch built oilers

Gladiator J6 – LG Slide Bars with scratch built oilers

Poetry in Motion (Plate…)

I had originally planned to go to Kettering show this weekend with a stop over on Friday night. Taking the decision not to go has given me an extra couple of days of thinking/modelling time in which to really get my head into the inside motion.

Fellow modeller Paul Penn-Sayers had offered to cut out a motion plate for the J6 for me. Paul has also supplied lots of information and patiently answered my ‘newby’ questions regarding inside motion for which I am eternally grateful. While I fully intended to take up the offer events somewhat overtook me.

While studying the GA drawing to work out which bit was which on Wednesday evening I had the thought of importing it into Inkscape (the drawing package that I use to draw for the silhouette), rescaling it to 7mm scale and then highlighting the components that make up the motion so that I could see what they are.

You can see the difference in the layout of the motion compared with the Midland variation in which the motion set from Laurie Griffin is based – below is a snip from the LG instructions.

While I was doing my stuff in Inkscape, Chris suggested using my silhouette to create a template for the motion plate to test whether it would fit between the frames etc. I thought that a great idea and within a very short space of time I had drawn up and cut this

I used that to transfer the measurements onto a spare frame spacer and drilled/cut filed it out. Due to using it as a template to scribe around, some of the measurements were fractionally over size, while the internal ones were slightly undersized. I kept filing until the slide bars fit and I got this. – I added the framing top and bottom afterwards.

Gladiator J6 – Scratch Built Motion Plate

Looking at Paul’s and Nick Dunhill’s superb motion plate examples, I realise that I will have to file some relief in the tops and bottom of the slide bar seats/openings in a similar manner to the centre opening where the eccentric rods will pass through, in order to allow for the up/down movement of the piston rods.

This is it in the frames – held by a blob of Blue tack

Gladiator J6 – Scratch Built Motion Plate

Although as I say I am very grateful to Paul for his offer to cut one out for me and looking at the example posted by Heather Kay on Western Thunder, it would have been of a much higher fidelity than my first effort has achieved but it’s a skill learned and Paul’s help has helped me to make sense of GA’s which has previously eluded me – all the lines blurring into a shapeless mass. Another skill which will only improve with practice and should translate into better quality models at the end of it.

A spring in the step,  or should that read, “some steps with the springs” (groan!)

 
We started with this.
 

Gladiator J6 – Replacement Ragstone Springs

 
I then patiently cut that down to get these separate pieces
 

Gladiator J6 – Loco spring modifications`

 
What I am aiming for is a 3D profile of these
 

Gladiator J6 – Replacement Ragstone Springs

 
Then I started to re-assemble them – and to misquote Eric Morecambe, all the right bits but not necessarily in the right order….
 

Gladiator J6 – Loco spring modifications -part 2

 
Monday evening should see them ready to fit (I hope!)

More Juice on the J6

Further progress has the chassis together and ready for the fitting of the hornblocks. 

Despite the quite substantial frames there was still a bit of flex in between the two main spacers and the rear one which is just soldered to the top left the bottom of the chassis with a tendency to splay outwards. To get over this I have temporarily soldered a third frame spacer (labeled motor spacer in and I also cut one of the wider frame spacers down and soldered it upright to take out the splay at the rear. 

As is comes there are three sets of spacers, marked from when it was blown up from a 4mm kit 00 gauge, EM gauge and P4 I am using the EM gauge spacers as a compromise between getting int to go around 5′ curves and having having sufficient room to fit the inside motion.

 

Gladiator J6 – Loco Chassis

Gladiator J6 – Loco Chassis

Before I go any further I am going to rework the springs and fit them before adding the Horn guides.

Gladiator J6 back on the Bench

As mentioned in my previous post a lack of time and energy has allowed me to do a few small jobs on the J6 that didn’t require anything that wasn’t therapeutic.

Although David had advised that it wouldn’t be available until March it was a pleasant surprise when an email suggested that it could be collected at Bristol show. Warren Haywood very kindly collected it for me, so the build has resumed. Perversely I have decided not to start with the tender but to get the loco frames done next – it’s to have working inside motion.

Parts of the etches do show their age and so it is with the loco springs which are a very basic etch. My client has asked me to build it as if it were for me so I have the discretion to obtain replacements for anything that I think could be improved upon.

The Hornblocks are Finney and were from stock so I will need to pick up some replacements for them from the Guys when I see them next.

Gladiator J6 – Loco Frames and Finney Horn Blocks

The spring castings are from Andy Beaton (@demu1037) at Ragstone Models and will be modified to make them look more like the J6 springs before fitting.

Gladiator J6 – Replacement Ragstone Springs